Talk 520.
An Australian gentleman (Mr. Lowman) is on a visit here. He seems to be studying the Hindu system of Philosophy. He started saying that he believed in unity, the jiva is yet in illusion and so on.
M.: What is the unity you believe in?
How can the jiva find a place in it?
D.: The Unity is the Absolute.
M.: The jiva cannot find a place in Unity.
D.: But the jiva has not realised the Absolute and imagines itself separate.
M.: Jiva is separate because it must exist in order to imagine something.
D.: But it is unreal.
M.: Any unreal thing cannot produce effects. It is like saying that you killed
some animal with the horn of a hare. A hare does not grow horns.
D.: I see the absurdity. But I speak from the physical plane.
M.: You say, ‘I’. Who is that ‘I’? If that is found you can later say whose is the illusion.
A little later Sri Bhagavan asked:
You say you are in the physical plane now. In which plane are you in dreamless sleep?
D.: I think in the physical plane again.
M.: You say, “I think”. That means that you are saying it now when you are awake. Anyway you admit that you exist in deep sleep. Don’t you?
D.: Yes, but I did not function then.
M.: So then, you existed in deep sleep. You are the same one who continues to exist? Are you not?
D.: Yes.
M.: With this difference - that you did not function in your sleep.
Rather you are associated with the thinking faculty in your waking state and you are dissociated from it in sleep.
Is it not so?
D.: Yes.
M.: Which is then your real nature?
Is it to be associated with thinking or
to be dissociated?
D.: I see it now. But I was not aware of my being in sleep.
M.: You say so now. You do not say so in your sleep. Or do you deny your being
(very existence in sleep)?
D.: No.
M.: It amounts to this that you exist in both states. The Absolute Existence is the Self. You are also conscious of the Existence. That Existence is also consciousness
(Sat and Chit). That is your real nature.
D.: But thinking is necessary even for realisation.
M.: That thinking is aimed at the elimination of all thinking.
D.: Owing to my ignorance, I do not realise the Absolute Existence-Consciousness.
M.: Who is the ‘I’?
Whose is the ignorance!
Answers to these questions will alone suffice to prove that you are already realised.
Is there anyone who denies his own existence?
Or can anyone say that he did not exist in his sleep?
Pure Existence is thus admitted.
The admission also implies consciousness. Thus all men are realised.
There is no ignorant man at all.
D.: Yes, I understand. But I have a small question to ask. The state of Realisation is one of desirelessness. If a human being is desireless he ceases to be human.
M.: You admit your existence in sleep. You did not function then. You were not aware of any gross body. You did not limit yourself to this body. So you could not find anything separate from your Self.
Now in your waking state you continue to be the same Existence with the limitations of the body added. These limitations make you see other objects. Hence arises desire. But the state of desirelessness in sleep made you no less happy than now. You did not feel any want. You did not make yourself miserable by not entertaining desires. But now you entertain desires because you are limited to this human frame.
Why do you wish to retain these limitations and continue to entertain desires?
Sri Bhagavan continued:
Does the body tell you that it is there?
It is certainly something apart from the body that remains aware.
What is it?
Do you say that it is the ‘I’,
meaning the ego which arises
simultaneously with the waking of the individual from sleep?
Be it so. The body is not sentient. The Absolute does not speak. The ego does. One does not aspire for liberation in sleep. The aspiration arises only in the waking state. The functions of the waking state
are those of the ego which is synonymous with the ‘I’.
Find out who this ‘I’ is.
On doing so and abiding as ‘I’, all these doubts will be cleared up.
~ Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi